Comments on: Does jQuery Make Us Lazy? http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/ ASP.NET, HTML, CSS, Visual Studio, CSharp, VB.NET and other programming items of interest. Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:52:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ZK@Web Marketing Blog http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2608 ZK@Web Marketing Blog Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:56:09 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2608 Nice read. jQuery has really opened up a world of browser interactivity to ASP.NET. I’m forwarding this to my few remaining “client-side-phobic” .NET buddies. Nice read. jQuery has really opened up a world of browser interactivity to ASP.NET. I’m forwarding this to my few remaining “client-side-phobic” .NET buddies.

]]> By: Chris Brandsma http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2607 Chris Brandsma Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:48:29 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2607 I think it is important, as everyone else has stated, to both be intellectually rigorous, and know when it is best be be lazy. If I were to have to train a new developer how to do web work, I would head straight to JQuery. I would use JQuery as a JavaScript learning gateway drug. By the time the developer is done learning JQuery, then learning the rest of JavaScript would be much easier. Plus, they are already effective at producing code. I see that as a double bonus. Basically, I see the argument like this: should I learn the Windows API and C before I learn .net? I did learn it in that order...but that is only because I'm old. I would rather focus on effective productivity first, then go back to learn how everything works. I think it is important, as everyone else has stated, to both be intellectually rigorous, and know when it is best be be lazy.

If I were to have to train a new developer how to do web work, I would head straight to JQuery. I would use JQuery as a JavaScript learning gateway drug. By the time the developer is done learning JQuery, then learning the rest of JavaScript would be much easier. Plus, they are already effective at producing code. I see that as a double bonus.

Basically, I see the argument like this: should I learn the Windows API and C before I learn .net? I did learn it in that order…but that is only because I’m old. I would rather focus on effective productivity first, then go back to learn how everything works.

]]> By: Dew Dump – June 19, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2602 Dew Dump – June 19, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew Sat, 20 Jun 2009 01:26:18 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2602 [...] Does jQuery Make Us Lazy? (Dave M. Bush) [...] [...] Does jQuery Make Us Lazy? (Dave M. Bush) [...]

]]> By: Abe http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2585 Abe Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:38:30 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2585 I mostly agree but for one point - knowing raw JavaScript probably *does* make you a better jQuery programmer. You can do stupid things in any language, toolkit, library, what-have-you. But knowing the nitty gritty low-levels you're probably less likely to do stupid things with the higher-level abstractions. Take C# for example. If you're doing a lot of string concatenation then you should be using StringBuilder. Those with a C background intuitively know exactly why this is important. Those with a C#-only background may only know this (if she's lucky) from reading it in a book. I mostly agree but for one point – knowing raw JavaScript probably *does* make you a better jQuery programmer. You can do stupid things in any language, toolkit, library, what-have-you. But knowing the nitty gritty low-levels you’re probably less likely to do stupid things with the higher-level abstractions. Take C# for example. If you’re doing a lot of string concatenation then you should be using StringBuilder. Those with a C background intuitively know exactly why this is important. Those with a C#-only background may only know this (if she’s lucky) from reading it in a book.

]]> By: Jonathan Hilgeman http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2583 Jonathan Hilgeman Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:09:18 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2583 An engineer (developer) who uses hammers and screwdrivers (jQuery) will be able to be more productive and creative if they understand physics (Javascript). Sure, he could use his raw knowledge of physics to build almost anything from scratch, but the tools are there to make the final product more refined and more stable. An engineer (developer) who uses hammers and screwdrivers (jQuery) will be able to be more productive and creative if they understand physics (Javascript).

Sure, he could use his raw knowledge of physics to build almost anything from scratch, but the tools are there to make the final product more refined and more stable.

]]> By: Dave http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2582 Dave Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:53:57 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2582 I never made the arguement that they "should not know" javascript. In fact, I concede that it will make them a better programmer. But so will knowing Assembler, or binary programming. And unless you've been programming longer than I have (20+ years) you probably don't know those and have been programming just fine without them. It's not knowing JavaScript that makes you know these things, it's knowing how to use jQuery PROPERLY that is the issue. Again, keep the eye on the ball. What you know and how you learned it is not the issue. I never made the arguement that they “should not know” javascript. In fact, I concede that it will make them a better programmer. But so will knowing Assembler, or binary programming. And unless you’ve been programming longer than I have (20+ years) you probably don’t know those and have been programming just fine without them.

It’s not knowing JavaScript that makes you know these things, it’s knowing how to use jQuery PROPERLY that is the issue.

Again, keep the eye on the ball. What you know and how you learned it is not the issue.

]]> By: Erik http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2581 Erik Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:42:43 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2581 Nice article, although I don't entire agree with the point that jQuery programmers should not know raw javascript. The more we know about the platform/framework/language we code in/for, the more efficient the result will be. If you are a ASP.NET developer, but you don't know what a POST really is (just a small example) you are in trouble. You might write a lot of applications that will work fine, but they won't be as efficient and well written if you'd grasp those very basic things. As for jQuery, one of the typical pitfalls for jQuery developers that only know the library and not the language (JavaScript) is inefficient DOM insertions in loops, unnecessary repeating selectors and non reusable code (and more).. Anyhow, nice post, and I do agree that you should be lazy to some point, that's exactly the reason to use jQuery and not write XMLHttpRequest by yourself (and supporting it for all browsers). Having said that, you should know how the XMLHttpRequest works in general to optimize your code.. Cheers, Erik Nice article, although I don’t entire agree with the point that jQuery programmers should not know raw javascript.

The more we know about the platform/framework/language we code in/for, the more efficient the result will be.

If you are a ASP.NET developer, but you don’t know what a POST really is (just a small example) you are in trouble.
You might write a lot of applications that will work fine, but they won’t be as efficient and well written if you’d grasp those very basic things.

As for jQuery, one of the typical pitfalls for jQuery developers that only know the library and not the language (JavaScript) is inefficient DOM insertions in loops, unnecessary repeating selectors and non reusable code (and more)..

Anyhow, nice post, and I do agree that you should be lazy to some point, that’s exactly the reason to use jQuery and not write XMLHttpRequest by yourself (and supporting it for all browsers).
Having said that, you should know how the XMLHttpRequest works in general to optimize your code..

Cheers,

Erik

]]> By: Amen http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/comment-page-1/#comment-2580 Amen Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:36:33 +0000 http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2009/06/18/does-jquery-make-us-lazy/#comment-2580 This makes me feel good. Because as a beginner you feel like you have to learn everything and you get bogged down into minutia. So I am going to learn as much as I can but still manage what I can get done as efficiently as possible. This makes me feel good. Because as a beginner you feel like you have to learn everything and you get bogged down into minutia. So I am going to learn as much as I can but still manage what I can get done as efficiently as possible.

]]>