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	<title>Comments for .NET Answers</title>
	<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com</link>
	<description>ASP.NET, HTML, CSS, Visual Studio, CSharp, VB.NET and other programming items of interest.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 03:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Object Oriented Programming has Failed Us by Dave</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/13/object-oriented-programming-has-failed-us/#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/13/object-oriented-programming-has-failed-us/#comment-487</guid>
		<description>Stevi,

You are where I was about 3 months ago on this issue.  And I agree IF we continue using OOP as THE way to program, everything you've said is true.

However, I don't have much hope of the industry providing the type of support that's need to make OOP really work.

Unless, of course, managers stop treating programmers as little robots they can talk to and out comes code and treat them as humans who need to be constantly trained, mentored, and capable of making mistakes.

The problem is systemic and needs a systemic solution.  Therefore, I propose trying to find a programming language/environment that works the way we think rather than the way things operate.  IOW, neither procedural nor object oriented programming are the ultimate solution.  But, if I had to pick one or the other as a manager, I'd probably pick procedural even though as a programmer I believe oop is a better programing model to work with.

Actually, if my shop was big enough, I'd try to structure my project so that the new programmers were primarily doing procedural coding and the older programmers, who understood it, were doing object oriented programming, and I'd provide a growth path that would mentor the new programmers up to where they could be object oriented programmers.  Unfortunately, most shops aren't big enough to pull that off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stevi,</p>
<p>You are where I was about 3 months ago on this issue.  And I agree IF we continue using OOP as THE way to program, everything you&#8217;ve said is true.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t have much hope of the industry providing the type of support that&#8217;s need to make OOP really work.</p>
<p>Unless, of course, managers stop treating programmers as little robots they can talk to and out comes code and treat them as humans who need to be constantly trained, mentored, and capable of making mistakes.</p>
<p>The problem is systemic and needs a systemic solution.  Therefore, I propose trying to find a programming language/environment that works the way we think rather than the way things operate.  IOW, neither procedural nor object oriented programming are the ultimate solution.  But, if I had to pick one or the other as a manager, I&#8217;d probably pick procedural even though as a programmer I believe oop is a better programing model to work with.</p>
<p>Actually, if my shop was big enough, I&#8217;d try to structure my project so that the new programmers were primarily doing procedural coding and the older programmers, who understood it, were doing object oriented programming, and I&#8217;d provide a growth path that would mentor the new programmers up to where they could be object oriented programmers.  Unfortunately, most shops aren&#8217;t big enough to pull that off.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Object Oriented Programming has Failed Us by Stevi Deter</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/13/object-oriented-programming-has-failed-us/#comment-486</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevi Deter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/13/object-oriented-programming-has-failed-us/#comment-486</guid>
		<description>An interesting article. 

My current thinking is that there needs to be more opportunities and even requirements for mentorship and continuing education in the field. 

You can learn enough about OOP to pass tests with an A, but until you have to start to apply the ideas, it never really gels. 

Every time I force myself to go back and reread some of the basic material, I find ideas finally clicking into place. 

Having started in procedural programming, I instinctively think that's the wrong route to go. OOP really can result in more understandable, easier to maintain code. But in line with what I understand as your theme, it has to be well-designed OOP. Bad OOP is usually just procedures wrapped in classes. 

Programming is more than just understanding syntax. I think the industry as a whole needs to find a better paradigm to realize there is a growth path -- we have to expect that brand-new programmers are going to struggle and we have to learn how to provide continuing education. And I think that would be as true in a pure-procedural world. If it was that much simpler, OOP would never have taken the hold it has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting article. </p>
<p>My current thinking is that there needs to be more opportunities and even requirements for mentorship and continuing education in the field. </p>
<p>You can learn enough about OOP to pass tests with an A, but until you have to start to apply the ideas, it never really gels. </p>
<p>Every time I force myself to go back and reread some of the basic material, I find ideas finally clicking into place. </p>
<p>Having started in procedural programming, I instinctively think that&#8217;s the wrong route to go. OOP really can result in more understandable, easier to maintain code. But in line with what I understand as your theme, it has to be well-designed OOP. Bad OOP is usually just procedures wrapped in classes. </p>
<p>Programming is more than just understanding syntax. I think the industry as a whole needs to find a better paradigm to realize there is a growth path &#8212; we have to expect that brand-new programmers are going to struggle and we have to learn how to provide continuing education. And I think that would be as true in a pure-procedural world. If it was that much simpler, OOP would never have taken the hold it has.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Object Oriented Programming has Failed Us by ramil</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/13/object-oriented-programming-has-failed-us/#comment-485</link>
		<dc:creator>ramil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 11:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/13/object-oriented-programming-has-failed-us/#comment-485</guid>
		<description>Right, our teacher in college didn't really teached us well in OOP. He spend most of his time on the syntax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, our teacher in college didn&#8217;t really teached us well in OOP. He spend most of his time on the syntax.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Secret to Debugging . . . by ramil</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/06/the-secret-to-debugging/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>ramil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 07:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/06/the-secret-to-debugging/#comment-477</guid>
		<description>I agree with you as well, Dave.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you as well, Dave.  <img src='http://blog.dmbcllc.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Secret to Debugging . . . by steve ruddell</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/06/the-secret-to-debugging/#comment-476</link>
		<dc:creator>steve ruddell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 16:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/06/the-secret-to-debugging/#comment-476</guid>
		<description>i have found this to be true too, especially when i've been at it for a few hours; that's usually when i'm too narrowly focused and am blind to those assumptions.

stepping away for a bit helps, but like you said, what needs to be done is to patiently observe, often step-by-step, what is *actually* happening.  that usually helps reveal that what i assumed was happening, was not.

i'd add that this is especially true if working by oneself.  if i can get someone else to look at it, they essentially will do the same thing, just not assume what i have been taking for granted all along. i've also found in those conversations that as i describe what it should do, to someone who is fresh to the problem, and walk through the code with them .. that sometimes that brings those assumptions to light too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have found this to be true too, especially when i&#8217;ve been at it for a few hours; that&#8217;s usually when i&#8217;m too narrowly focused and am blind to those assumptions.</p>
<p>stepping away for a bit helps, but like you said, what needs to be done is to patiently observe, often step-by-step, what is *actually* happening.  that usually helps reveal that what i assumed was happening, was not.</p>
<p>i&#8217;d add that this is especially true if working by oneself.  if i can get someone else to look at it, they essentially will do the same thing, just not assume what i have been taking for granted all along. i&#8217;ve also found in those conversations that as i describe what it should do, to someone who is fresh to the problem, and walk through the code with them .. that sometimes that brings those assumptions to light too.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflection From a DLL and Serialization by ramil</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/30/reflection-from-a-dll-and-serialization/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>ramil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 07:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/30/reflection-from-a-dll-and-serialization/#comment-475</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing these stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing these stuff.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s smart to fail&#8230; by ramil</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/01/its-smart-to-fail/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>ramil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 03:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/05/01/its-smart-to-fail/#comment-472</guid>
		<description>Right on Dave! Good point of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on Dave! Good point of view.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflection - Loading The Assembly by Mihail</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/10/reflection-loading-the-assembly/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Mihail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/10/reflection-loading-the-assembly/#comment-470</guid>
		<description>I agree about LoadFrom() - just wanted to clarify in a way that the references to the libraries are not needed in a real reflection case - I am the 1% that got a bit confused about adding the references. 
Anyway - thanks for doing it, great way to learn something!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree about LoadFrom() - just wanted to clarify in a way that the references to the libraries are not needed in a real reflection case - I am the 1% that got a bit confused about adding the references.<br />
Anyway - thanks for doing it, great way to learn something!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflection - Loading The Assembly by Dave</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/10/reflection-loading-the-assembly/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/10/reflection-loading-the-assembly/#comment-469</guid>
		<description>Of course you could instantiate it directly, but I clearly state that the reason we added the reference is to get the dll in the same directory as the EXE which is required for the standard way of loading an assembly, which is what 99% of the people who would watch this video would want to do.

If I wanted to illustrate how to load from a directory outside of the default directories, I would have used LoadFrom, or some other method that did that.

The problem with LoadFrom is that it is as equally confusing because then everyone would think that LoadFrom is the way to load an assembly.  Most of the time it is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you could instantiate it directly, but I clearly state that the reason we added the reference is to get the dll in the same directory as the EXE which is required for the standard way of loading an assembly, which is what 99% of the people who would watch this video would want to do.</p>
<p>If I wanted to illustrate how to load from a directory outside of the default directories, I would have used LoadFrom, or some other method that did that.</p>
<p>The problem with LoadFrom is that it is as equally confusing because then everyone would think that LoadFrom is the way to load an assembly.  Most of the time it is not.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflection - Loading The Assembly by Mihail</title>
		<link>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/10/reflection-loading-the-assembly/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Mihail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.dmbcllc.com/2008/04/10/reflection-loading-the-assembly/#comment-468</guid>
		<description>The part with adding the library reference to your form project - you can create the object via new instead of loading the assembly... I understand the purpose but it makes is a bit confusing (LoadFrom(path) would of avoid adding the reference and made it a bit clear IMHO for this particular exercise).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The part with adding the library reference to your form project - you can create the object via new instead of loading the assembly&#8230; I understand the purpose but it makes is a bit confusing (LoadFrom(path) would of avoid adding the reference and made it a bit clear IMHO for this particular exercise).</p>
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